🎙️NEW EPISODE of ADHDKC Conversations With Mike Legett - Neuroscience made easy
- Mike Legett
- Apr 15
- 29 min read
Have you ever had a moment where everything is ready to go — the gym clothes are out, the homework plan is made, the reminders are set — and then when the time comes… your brain just says nope?
If that sounds familiar, you’re not alone.
In our latest episode of ADHDKC Conversations, hosts Kristen Stuppy and Sara Whelan sit down with ADHD coach Mike Legett to explore the fascinating neuroscience behind motivation and decision-making in ADHD brains.
This conversation began when Kristen heard Mike speak at the ADHD International Conference in Kansas City. After the talk, Kristen immediately asked her to speak for ADHDKC — because her explanation of complex genetics was one of the most clear explanations, understandable to even non-science nerds. It was her favorite talk from the entire conference and she knows ADHDKC parents would love to hear Mike communicate science.
In this episode, Mike gives listeners a preview of the ideas she’ll share during the upcoming ADHDKC Parent Group talk on May 12th, where she will present:
Why ADHD Brains Sometimes Can’t Get Started
Many parents say the same thing:
“My child knows what to do — they just can’t get started.”
Mike explains that the problem usually isn’t knowledge or intelligence. Instead, it’s the brain’s internal decision-making system trying to answer a much more basic question:
“Is this worth it right now?”
ADHD brains weigh that question differently. Rather than prioritizing importance or long-term consequences, they respond strongly to things that feel:
• interesting
• immediate
• novel
• challenging
• emotionally engaging
Understanding this can completely change how we respond when kids (or adults) seem stuck.
Moving From Frustration to Compassion
One of the most powerful parts of this conversation is how understanding brain science can reduce shame.
Instead of assuming a child is lazy, careless, or defiant, neuroscience shows us something very different: the brain may simply be struggling to activate the task.
As Mike puts it:
“What’s hard is hard — and it’s hard for a reason.”
That shift in perspective opens the door to more effective strategies and more compassionate parenting.
Neuroscience Made Easy
In this conversation you’ll hear about:
• Why “try harder” doesn’t actually help ADHD motivation
• The difference between effort problems and activation problems
• Why importance doesn’t automatically create motivation in ADHD brains
• How collaborative problem-solving helps kids build autonomy
• A simple mindset shift that helps parents slow down and find real solutions
You’ll also hear Mike share how her unusual career path (though not atypical for an ADHDer) — from an engineering undergrad to a genetics grad student to an internationally recognized swing dance instructor to an ADHD coach — shaped the way she understands learning, motivation, and brain science. She is able communicate science in a way that leads to neuroscience made easy.
Want to Learn More?
This episode is just the beginning.
Mike will be our featured speaker at the next ADHDKC Parent Group online event:
Tuesday, May 126:30 PM Central
To Do, or Not To Do? Decision Neuroscience and ADHD
During that talk, Mike will go deeper into the brain science behind decision-making and explain complex concepts in clear, approachable language that parents can actually use.
If you’ve ever wondered why motivation seems so unpredictable in ADHD — this is a conversation you won’t want to miss.
Register for the Parent Group event here.
And in the meantime, watch the full ADHDKC Conversations episode above, on our YouTube channel, or listen on your favorite podcast player.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Setting the Stage
00:17 Understanding ADHD and Decision-Making
03:16 Mike Leggett’s Journey to ADHD Coaching
08:22 Learning and Motivation: A Unique Perspective
10:24 Decision Neuroscience Explained
12:52 The Challenge of Getting Started
15:43 The Equation of Motivation
19:52 Building Compassion Through Understanding
22:41 Common Misconceptions About ADHD and Motivation
24:11 Mindset Shifts for Parents
26:23 Practical Strategies for Families
28:03 Supporting Autonomy and Motivation
31:05 Strategies for Adults with ADHD
33:34 Bridging the Gap in Understanding ADHD
35:05 Key Takeaways for Parents
36:57 Fun and Personal Insights
Transcript - autogenerated, excuse the errors
Kristen Stuppy (00:17)
Welcome back to ADHDKC Conversations. I’m Kristen Stuppy.
Sara Whelan (00:22)
And I’m Sara Whelan. We’re so glad to have you here with us. And whether you’re a parent, educator, professional, someone navigating ADHD yourself, our goal is always the same, to bring you practical insights, really compassionate perspectives and conversations that just help make life a little easier.
Kristen Stuppy (00:43)
And today’s episode is one that I think a lot of families are going to recognize themselves in. You know these moments where you want to do something, you’ve planned it, you’ve prepared for it, but when the time comes, your brain just says,
Sara Whelan (00:58)
Yeah, for sure. Like, gym clothes are ready. We’ve got the homework all planned out. Morning routine is mapped out. But somehow it just doesn’t all happen or any of it happens at all. If that sounds familiar, you’re definitely not alone. You’re in good company here.
Kristen Stuppy (01:16)
Today we’re going to begin talking about the neuroscience of decision-making, specifically how ADHD brains decide what feels worth doing and what doesn’t. And we have an incredible guest here to help us unpack things in a way that actually makes sense in real life. I do have to say that I heard Mike talk at the November ADHD International big convention here in Kansas City, and she’s the...
only speaker I went up to after the talk and asked her if I could ask her to speak for this group because it was by far the best talk I heard at that entire conference. She made genetics very relatable. And I do have a science background, but I don’t think I needed the science background to understand what she was saying. So I’m very excited that she’s here today.
Sara Whelan (02:07)
Fantastic. I’m so excited. I do not have a science background and just cannot wait to learn your insights and what you have to share with us and our audience.
Kristen Stuppy (02:11)
Bye.
Sara Whelan (02:17)
We’re joined today by Mike Leggett. Mike’s an ADHD coach. Hi, welcome. And she has a wonderfully unique background in science and art. And she got her start in genetics, later became an internationally recognized swing and blues dance instructor. I have a dance background. Love that. fantastic. And now helps ADHD clients move from being overwhelmed, frustrated toward being curious.
Mike Legett (02:22)
you
Sara Whelan (02:44)
having momentum in their lives and making meaningful progress.
Mike Legett (02:47)
you
Kristen Stuppy (02:49)
And
Mike describes herself as a proud nerd, which we absolutely love because I am also a proud nerd. And she’s passionate again about translating complex neuroscience into language that parents and individuals can actually use. She’ll be our featured speaker at the ADHD KC parent group event on Tuesday, May 12th at 6.30 PM Central. And in today’s conversation, it’s a great preview of what families can expect.
Sara Whelan (02:53)
Okay.
Mike, welcome to ADHD KC conversations. We’re just so glad you’re here.
Mike Legett (03:20)
Thank you. Thank
you so much. ⁓ am thrilled and honored ⁓ and also delighted. And thank you, Kristen. Man, that really feels good to hear. So thank you so much.
Kristen Stuppy (03:32)
That’s awesome. I think I did a review for you as well online. hopefully you’ll be invited back to more of those talks. But I do love hearing about the journey from science into coaching. Can you tell us a little more about what drew you to ADHD coaching specifically?
Mike Legett (03:35)
Yay!
Yeah, it was exactly as straight and linear a path as you might expect from an ADHD-er. So I, you know, I actually was always interested in science and arts and writing and, right, just all the things. And when I was in high school, right, I was like, I’m going to be an engineer. So I went to undergrad and I was like, yeah, I’m going to be engineer. And then I got in there. I was like, no, I’m not.
I’m going to be a vet in my last year undergrad. was like, well, okay, no. Instead, I’m going to do genetics because I had a professor who was, I think she said she had ADHD. If not, she certainly got it. she, know, molecular genetics was super interesting. It was a puzzle. So I started my PhD in molecular genetics and I had been diagnosed ⁓ as a kid with ADHD, which is remarkable for a woman in her forties who was inattentive, which might give you a hint as to like,
how noticeable it was that I didn’t skate by. But it wasn’t managed ⁓ through anything other than know, gritted teeth and overcommitment, which was my maladaptive coping mechanism, right? So by the time I get to grad school, my coping mechanisms weren’t working anymore. So I was sitting in this grad school library, right? And this article,
comes across my desk, digital desk, about ADHD in women and what it looked like. Because when I was a kid, they were like, you have ADHD. That’s why you’re disorganized and distracted. You can try Ritalin. And I was like, cool. I don’t like Ritalin. And they’re like, cool. Have a good life. That was it. And so this article comes across my desk. And I was like, this is my entire life explained, every aspect. Because again, I was left with, this is why you’re distracted and disorganized. So there was like,
Sara Whelan (05:34)
Mm-hmm.
Mike Legett (05:35)
ugly crying in a grad school library, as one does. And so I ended up dropping out of grad school because the graduate program said, we can’t, you know, I know you’ve been diagnosed, but you have to get re-diagnosed. And there were all these hoops to jump through. And there was all this ambiguity, makes sense for a graduate program, for PhD program. But it just, it was a terrible fit. My brain felt like it was on fire every day. So
By that point, I was already doing dance basically full time. And so I metaphorically ran away to join the circus. I taught dance full time and it was the, it was like the perfect antidote to the grad school experience because everything, everything was in the moment. Everything was immediate. It was physical. was interpersonal. It was, you know, problem solving that was short-term. How do I get you?
Kristen Stuppy (06:09)
you
Mike Legett (06:29)
to understand what I’m saying and move in this way right now and feel it. So it was like dream career for my unmanaged ADHD. Amazing. Still love science, still kept learning about the brain and about ADHD. I’m not afraid of peer reviewed journals, I’m not afraid of terms I don’t know because of that background. So that stayed with me. And then pandemic hit.
Kristen Stuppy (06:33)
Okay.
Mike Legett (06:54)
And suddenly it felt like not a great idea to have people fly in from multiple states every weekend to hug while exercising. As one can imagine. So it’s funny because series of coincidences, right? Because I hadn’t had a corporate overlord to tell me, don’t talk about mental health struggles online, right? And like, don’t publicly discuss what’s hard about picking up socks off the floor. Like,
I’ve been very open about those things. And so when I started looking for a different career option, I was thinking like, okay, I want to help people in this field because people reached out and they’re like, my gosh, hearing somebody else talk about this, hearing somebody else get it.
Um, you know, had somebody tell me they got diagnosed because of my Facebook posts about like what was hard for me. Um, and so I, I was like, I want to help people with this. One thing led to another ADHD coaching came across my desk and I was like, this has so much in common with teaching dance at a high level in ways that you might not expect, but it combines that with my love of science and with helping people with a thing that gets in their way that doesn’t have to. So.
Kristen Stuppy (07:55)
Thank
Mike Legett (08:07)
You know, straight as an arrow.
Sara Whelan (08:09)
Mike, you’ve had such a unique path from genetics to dance to coaching.
So I’m curious, how did those different experiences shape how you think about learning and motivation?
Mike Legett (08:22)
Yeah, think...
Sara Whelan (08:23)
I’ll take a sip too.
Mike Legett (08:26)
Sorry guys, I’m just going through puberty today, it’s So, great. How do they each affect how I think about learning and motivation?
Sara Whelan (08:29)
Thank you.
Yes. Yep.
Mike Legett (08:41)
It’s funny because in the moment, I wasn’t directly learning about those things. I didn’t think I was. And looking back, I can see it, right? Like I was in grad school because of my like inherent motivation, my curiosity to learn about genetics and to do the problem solving and to understand the way the world works, right? What didn’t work about that was the ambiguity, the
Sara Whelan (08:46)
Mm-hmm.
Mike Legett (09:09)
lack of structure, the expectations that weren’t concrete but that were very real and had consequences. So like I think that was a really great sort of
outline of like, okay, what’s hard? What does motivate you? Right. And where, where there’s a gap there versus in dance where again, everything was so in the moment that I didn’t have to sort of generate motivation on my own. All I had to do is show up. Right. And then the minute somebody’s there asking me a question, like, I’m good to go. Let’s do this thing. You know? Um, and so I think now working with clients, it’s a lot easier for me to see the way that setting
and the way that the type of motivation needed affected those different situations. Does that make sense?
Sara Whelan (09:56)
Absolutely. Yeah, does. and really speaks to how important the combination sometimes of like setting and other factors really be a hindrance or so helpful and vital for those with ADHD, right? ⁓ and jumping into the main topic is, which can be very intimidating to some people, decision neuroscience.
Kristen Stuppy (09:57)
you
Okay.
Mike Legett (10:13)
Absolutely.
Sara Whelan (10:24)
I’m curious, right, about this, don’t really necessarily know what it means. Could you explain it in everyday language for us?
Mike Legett (10:31)
happily. So I love that neuroscience sounds like such a big fancy word, right? And it really is like, how do brain do? Right? So this, it’s like, how do brain decide? Right? And when I talk about decision neuroscience here, the assumption is that people will have, some people will have no science background whatsoever. Right?
Sara Whelan (10:40)
Yep.
Mike Legett (10:56)
And some people may, but I want to make sure that people can get a foundational understanding. Because I think this is a little off topic, not an apology, just an acknowledgement. I think it’s really hard. There’s a big gap between the information that’s aimed at clinicians and professionals and the information that’s aimed at laypeople. for laypeople, I think that learning from really high
quality sources is hard because it tends to come with a lot of science background and when you don’t know what you don’t know, we don’t have the scaffolding to build on, that’s a barrier. Because it’s a barrier that doesn’t have to be there, right? And so, you know, anytime I talk about like big scary words, I like to give it enough of a scaffolding that lets people then build up. if, know, ⁓ Kristen, you said you went to the genetics talk. I just listened to the
Kristen Stuppy (11:40)
.
Okay.
Mike Legett (11:50)
the like online conference genetic talk by
a genetics researcher. And I was, I was patting my back, myself on the back, honestly, like just, just to break, because I was like, yes, if people listen to the first one, then they’re, they’re probably able to mostly hang in this one. Right. And like, that’s what I want. I want people to be able to go and learn from those sources that are currently unreachable. So don’t be scared of the big words. I promise I will make them very understandable.
Kristen Stuppy (12:12)
Thank
Yes, I think.
Sara Whelan (12:20)
inapproachable.
Mike Legett (12:20)
How
do you brain decide do?
Sara Whelan (12:22)
Right.
Kristen Stuppy (12:23)
You
know, I feel like I hear you completely there. I teach our teen group talk and trying to teach them, I use different examples all the time and try to get them to think through it. And I love talking about the animals of the brain.
Mike Legett (12:37)
Yeah, love that.
Kristen Stuppy (12:39)
So anyway, one thing parents will tell me all the time as a pediatrician is my child knows what to do. They just can’t get started. And so can you maybe talk a little bit about what’s happening in the brain in that moment?
Mike Legett (12:52)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So first off, let’s, you know, one of the elephants in the room, right? We talk about motivation. And I think one of the challenges is that we’re not careful with how we define motivation. And so in that moment, I think we could all say, the child isn’t motivated to do the thing. But what does that mean? Does that mean that there are the child lacks forces compelling them to do it? No, it doesn’t.
What it means is the child has too many forces on one side of the equation of don’t do it compared to the forces saying do it, right? Because the output from your brain when you consider do it and don’t do it, right? What your brain sort of decides is motivation. The output is motivation. So if I give you a nice warm cup of tea and I say would you like a sip?
and you’re like, that sounds good. I want that. Your brain has decided, T sounds good. If I offer you a bucket of ice water, I’m like, would you like to stick your hand on this? And your brain is like, absolutely not. That sounds horrible, right? Your brain is motivated to not do it. Now, if I put a quarter in the bottom and I’m like, you can have this quarter if you want to grab it. Maybe you do it. Maybe you don’t. What if I put your house keys in there? Right. It’s the same bucket of ice water. You’re just as capable in both circumstances, but you might not.
Kristen Stuppy (13:56)
you
Okay.
Okay.
Mike Legett (14:16)
be
willing to dip your hand in for a quarter. Now, the difference here is that we’re talking about cognitive level choices at this point. We’re talking about, is it worth it to you based on long-term choices, blah, blah. But in these moments when we can’t start, it’s further back in the process than that. It is more primal, if you will. Our brains are trying to keep us alive. That’s what they do. And so they are trying to figure out, how do I avoid things like
Kristen Stuppy (14:31)
So,
Mike Legett (14:45)
damage to myself and discomfort because discomfort is an indication of damage to myself. How do I gain things that feel good? So when your kid can’t get started on something, even though they know, knowing was never the problem. The problem is
at like a feelings level, at a body to brain communication level, their brain has said, this is a bad idea, right? And they can, you can words it all you want. It won’t change how it feels. And thus that motivation.
isn’t there. And so with that problem now, at that point, then the problem solving is very different situation, right? Because a timer won’t change the way they feel. If they truly didn’t notice the passage of time, a timer can help. If they are stuck because they dread this assignment, then a timer doesn’t change.
Kristen Stuppy (15:33)
Okay.
Sara Whelan (15:36)
So tell me a little bit more about what goes into this equation, like how in making choices and being motivated.
Mike Legett (15:43)
Yeah, absolutely. So I mentioned that brains want to survive, right? And the way that they figure out how they’re going to survive or what’s moving them towards or away from survival at this really basic sort of cellular level is discomfort or damage or effort. And when I say like effort, for example, I don’t mean is it difficult. A lot of times parents are like, well, my kid is plenty smart enough. Of course they are, right?
That was never the problem. Um, when, when you think about an ADHD brain and effort, think about tedium or think about like, fatiguing. It’s not that they’re not smart enough. Sometimes something that’s harder cognitively is easier because it’s more challenging, right? Which brings me to a really important point that ADHD brains, probably, many of you have probably heard this, but we are interest based nervous system. So.
Kristen Stuppy (16:35)
It’s.
Mike Legett (16:36)
things that interest us feel to our brain like survival. That feels like a slice of cake. That feels like safety, a warm fire, right? And like a celebration all in one,
right? Importance is actually not one of the prime factors here. So if you have ever thought or ever heard like, well, if it was important to them, they would do it. Like, let’s get rid of that right now because honestly,
That isn’t how it works. I think it might be for neurotypicals. I’ve never been a neurotypical. I don’t know. I sort of get the impression based on the way that people talk about it that maybe for a neurotypical person, their brain takes importance and converts it into motivation. That’s real not true for us. ⁓ So instead of importance, which is like high level, that’s like our values, that’s our long-term planning, that’s effects down the road, interest is right now.
Kristen Stuppy (17:19)
Okay.
Thank you.
Mike Legett (17:30)
And so for ADHD years, right, we feel things more strongly. Our decisions are more feelings informed. All decisions are feelings informed. That is important to know, but ours are more and the way we perceive time is different. And so when ADHD brains make these choices, what’s hard? What don’t you like about it? What’s uncomfortable about it? Like, why not? And then on the plus side, like, why do it?
Sara Whelan (17:43)
Thank
Mike Legett (17:56)
Right? Is it fun? Is it challenging? Is it social? Is it concrete? Is it immediate? Right? And so again, if we think about how we problem solve for moments of I can’t get started, it’s really not about those like end point things. It’s about the characteristics of the task and our relationship to the task itself.
Kristen Stuppy (18:20)
Yeah, so making the task fun or somehow doable because it’s interesting.
Mike Legett (18:27)
Yeah, right? And one of the, you know, one of the big things that I think is useful to consider is that like, there are some tasks where they are like, they’re not horrible, they’re not great. In which case, like making it fun is what it takes. And then there are some tasks where like, making it fun will never be enough. Right? Like there is no amount of fun you could put into like calling the bank because you had an overdraft.
Sara Whelan (18:47)
Mm-hmm.
Mike Legett (18:56)
It’s never going to be fun enough. You know, there are other ways to tackle that, but recognizing like, okay, how fun can it be? Like how much? Yes. How much? No. Ooh, there’s a lot of no there. Or there’s just, there’s almost no, no, there’s almost no. Yes. Right. Different solutions for different contexts and different problems.
Kristen Stuppy (19:16)
Yeah, so important there.
Mike Legett (19:19)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sara Whelan (19:19)
Absolutely.
I’m already thinking about stuff in my own life that you’re talking about. So I’m having to track and focus on the task again, because I’m interested in that. like, all right.
Mike Legett (19:26)
You
Sara Whelan (19:31)
One of the things I really appreciate about your work is that you build compassion and help people build compassion, self-compassion, right? For kids and for the adults in their lives. How can understanding decision-making help reduce shame, frustration, things like that?
Mike Legett (19:52)
how does understanding this help build compassion?
Sara Whelan (19:55)
Yep.
Mike Legett (19:56)
is such a great and important question. When we understand the biological basis for what we experience from those around us and from ourselves, it becomes a lot easier to understand it and to sort of meet these brains where they are. When we don’t understand, I think it’s a lot easier to, you know, assign character implications or decide something is a moral failing. When we understand the
biological basis and we understand what’s happening, it becomes a lot easier to separate somebody’s internal life from their outcomes. So if I understand that, you know, that somebody needs glasses and they don’t have glasses, they have terrible eyesight, right? And then I yell at them for not catching the typos on a wall mural that’s really far away.
because it’s not important to them because they didn’t care because they didn’t try like.
Whoa, that makes me a really mean person if I knew, right? If I didn’t know that they had glasses, I mean, okay, still not in my nature to like yell at somebody, but you get the idea, right? Like, if I know that this person needs glasses, then A, I give them glasses. B, I give them another task. C, I give them an assistant to help them, whatever, right? I no longer think like, ⁓ they’re trying to sabotage the mural project, right?
Sara Whelan (21:19)
Mm-hmm.
Mike Legett (21:26)
And so understanding where something comes from and how it plays out, I think it just helps us accept the fact that it’s real. And it helps us to accept the things that are gonna help and the things that are not gonna help. like try harder. That is meaningless. That is meaning. I tell my clients all the time, like, I think willpower is made up. I think discipline is.
Like again, made up. These are just cudgels for us to beat ourselves up with. I don’t buy into it. Motivation is real, but it’s not like what we think is important in the long-term for our better selves, right? Motivation is the feeling we get that says do it or don’t. Now we change our context, we manage what goes in and we can change our motivation or we work around it. We say, okay, I’m not going to be motivated to do this. What do I do so I can get started anyway?
Sara Whelan (22:20)
Mm-hmm.
Kristen Stuppy (22:21)
Thanks.
Mike Legett (22:23)
Right? Those are our options, not like just try harder. Sure. Yeah. Grab my magic. Try harder feather.
Kristen Stuppy (22:32)
So what are some of the most common misconceptions that you see parents have when they see their child avoiding or procrastinating something?
Mike Legett (22:41)
Mm-hmm. So I think one is, again, is like, it’s an effort problem. Like, that doesn’t mean anything, you know? It’s an activation problem, not an effort problem. If they can’t activate, they can’t put in the effort. You know, I think something that is genuinely hard, and I have a lot of like empathy for parents in this situation, right? It’s hard to see your kid able to play video games for hours on end or able to clean their room when a friend is coming over, but not because it’s important to you.
Right? And at the same time, there’s this paradox where you know your kid is smart. You know your kid is loving and wonderful. Right? And so like, where’s the disconnect? So I think even these days, there’s a lot more good information out there. Right? We used to assume we, luckily this was mostly before my time, but like the common assumption used to be like, this is a bad parenting problem, or this is a bad kid problem. And neither of those things are true. It’s a brain that doesn’t fit into a neuro-typical context.
And so as parents start to understand that, that again, it becomes harder to project the wrong idea onto the kid and easier to see what’s really going on with the kid. So yeah, if, if you’re like, my kid just needs discipline. My kid just needs, you know, willpower. My kid just needs someone to teach them the right calendar app.
Kristen Stuppy (23:57)
Mm-hmm.
Mike Legett (23:58)
I think those are, they come from an understandable place,
right? We get messaging like that all the time. But if you’re noticing they’re not serving you and they’re not helping, like it’s for a reason.
Sara Whelan (24:10)
Absolutely. And for parents who are listening right now and maybe thinking, this is what goes on in my house every morning, every day. What’s a mindset shift, maybe one that would help immediately in those moments?
Kristen Stuppy (24:10)
Yeah.
Mike Legett (24:25)
Yeah,
good question. I think the biggest one is going from like, I just need to fix this. This is going to be, this is going to sound semantic and I promise it’s not. You know, we need to fix this to, we need to figure out how to fix this. That sounds really subtle and again, semantic, but let me, let me give you an example. It will be about parents, but it’s just one I have top of mind. Let’s say that you’re
throwing a party and you’re super overwhelmed and you can’t get started. One thing, like an exercise I might do with you is say, OK, let’s write down all the uncertainties. So you write down all the things you don’t know. Who’s doing food? What’s the date? Where am I going to have it? Blah, blah, blah. The next step for many people would be jumping to try to solve these. But if I want to slow down a brain, I might say, OK, now write down how you could figure it out.
So for the date, well, I need to talk to my partner and pick a date with them, with the calendar. That’s a different question. That’s a different answer than I would get if I asked you, cool, so what’s the date going to be? And just that added little layer, what it does is it recognizes that something is in the way. And it helps you get a little space and a little bit of distance.
Sara Whelan (25:37)
Mm-hmm.
Mike Legett (25:47)
from the intensity of the emotion of solve it right now. And so, when you have like chaos or unsolvable problems or whatever, they’re not unsolvable, I know, right? But they feel that way. It’s a real feeling. When you encounter that, like, instead of thinking like, what’s the solution, think about like, okay, what are the uncertainties? And when I’m calm, how could I solve those?
Sara Whelan (25:51)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yes.
Kristen Stuppy (26:04)
you
Mike Legett (26:13)
And like ideally, how could we solve those collaboratively, right?
The other people involved. Cool. That’s so much easier. Sometimes, often, but yeah.
Sara Whelan (26:20)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kristen Stuppy (26:24)
Yeah, I love the idea of like slowing down the brain and not trying to solve the problem right away before you. Like that stop to gather more information and to know what your problem really is before you try to solve. So let’s talk some more practical strategies as we understand the brain and making these decisions. What are some tools that families can start experimenting with?
Mike Legett (26:29)
It’s so hard, it takes practice.
You ready? huh.
Yeah, I think tying back to the idea of collaborative problem solving. I know that parents struggle with the, do I get my kid to do the thing? Because again, that’s what we’ve seen around us. But if you can start asking your kid what’s hard, if you can start asking them what’s in the way and not in a way that’s trying to lead them to an answer.
but in a way that is holding space and helping to co-regulate with them, giving them the sort of emotional stability so that they can face those feelings and think. Because the ADHD brain trying to survive, discomfort means damage. What do do when we feel discomfort? We bounce. We bounce. We’re out. So when your kid says, don’t know, your kid just bounced, right? Their brain ran away from discomfort. if, if you can get,
Kristen Stuppy (27:19)
Okay.
Mike Legett (27:39)
to a point of like, what’s getting in the way? What’s hard? Like, that’s a really big shift, you know, and it may sound a little vague to be practical, but like, try it. What’s hard? Where are you stuck?
Sara Whelan (27:55)
So how can parents support autonomy and motivation instead of getting stuck in power struggles? That’s a common one, right? Right. Very tough.
Mike Legett (28:04)
Have you tried a magic wand? just, know, fairy godmode.
Yeah, again, like I think the more collaborative, the more co-regulate, co-regulative. Yeah, I’m say that’s a, that’s a word. You know, the more cooperative we can be in these moments and the more we can support kids. A.
that helps you be on the same page and working as a team, which feels so much better than nobody wants to fight with their kids, you know? It also models for the kids how to do this for themselves. If I’m a kid and I can’t start cleaning my room, that was my childhood. I definitely could never clean my room as a kid, right? And if my parents had come and said, why can’t you just do this? God!
Kristen Stuppy (28:37)
Okay.
Mike Legett (28:54)
You know what I learned to say in my head? I learned to say, why can’t I just do this? God. Right? If my parent is able to come in and say, it’s a lot, huh? I get that. Totally fair that it’s a lot. What’s one place you could start? What’s task? What’s one aspect? What if you find all the shoes? What if we just look for shoes together? Right?
Kristen Stuppy (29:00)
Okay.
Mike Legett (29:24)
It helps model that and the kids learn to do that sort of thing. so instead of like, you have to start this right now, right? That’s trying to force and guess what? We’re adding negative emotion to a situation. It’s already full of negative emotion. The motivation that that creates is to escape even harder. you know, and so thinking through like, how can you get started? What’s one thing you could do?
Sara Whelan (29:43)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mike Legett (29:53)
That gives the kid the choice of themselves that helps them think like, could I start? Not someone’s forcing me, but how can I do this? That increasing their sense of agency, figuring, letting them choose where to start gives them that sense of autonomy. And obviously those choices are going to shift over a kid’s development. Because the way you might approach this problem with a teenager is going to be different than with a four-year-old.
Kristen Stuppy (30:08)
So.
Thank
Mike Legett (30:20)
But I think that fundamental skill set and approach is the same. And, you know, the earlier parents can start doing it, the more they can equip their kids to self-regulate and to step back and to slow down and to think about how they can solve the problem instead of what’s the answer right now, right?
Sara Whelan (30:40)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kristen Stuppy (30:40)
Right.
And what about adults with ADHD? A lot of our parents have ADHD. They may or may not have a diagnosis of ADHD, but we know that the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. If they’re dealing with kids with ADHD, probably at least one of the parents has ADHD and they might not be recognizing some of these patterns in themselves. How would you advise an adult with ADHD to approach some of these strategies?
Mike Legett (31:05)
Would it sound cheeky if I said the exact same thing? Because honestly, the exact same thing.
Sara Whelan (31:10)
No, not at all. In fact, I’m thinking
like, this applies all throughout life, this particular skill set, right? Like no matter what your age is.
Mike Legett (31:16)
It does. the... Yeah, absolutely. And
it’s funny, so many adults feel like we have to solve this in a vacuum. We have to be able to motivate ourselves using spontaneous motivation in the moment because we said so, because whatever. And I’ll tell you, like, if we had a dollar for every time I said to my husband or a friend or a coworker, like,
Sara Whelan (31:34)
Mm-hmm.
Mike Legett (31:43)
I’m stuck. I talk this through with you? I would be so rich. I’m not. So obviously nobody’s giving me dollars for that, but it makes like, whoo, it makes a huge difference. And what’s cool about this is that like, it sounds like a, a small ask if somebody says that to you, right? I’m like, Hey, can I talk this through with you for a second? I’m just, I’m just stuck on something. I don’t need you to solve it. I I just need to talk it out loud.
Sara Whelan (32:08)
Mm-hmm.
Mike Legett (32:10)
Now, if I were to say to most adults, how feasible would it be for you to just say that to somebody? There’s this pushback of like, no, no, no, I’m supposed to be able to solve it on my own. I can’t just always ask people. Guess what? It’s every bit as small when you ask as it is when somebody asks you. So taking the same approach of like, hey, talk it through with somebody, somebody who can co-regulate and somebody who will not keep on shame and judgment, right?
Kristen Stuppy (32:23)
If
Mike Legett (32:40)
And that lets your body and your brain have a very different conversation because now you’re co-regulating with somebody. Now you have social connectedness, right? Versus when you’re talking to yourself and your self-talk inside your head is agitated and emotional and mean, probably. It’s either mean or it’s panicked and it’s running away, right? Why can’t I just do this?
Sara Whelan (33:03)
Mm-hmm.
Mike Legett (33:03)
Has anything ever been solved? Why can’t I just do this? ⁓ right. And yet we try, we try so hard. That’s such a hard pattern to train out, but it is, it absolutely is. know, neuroplasticity is a really cool, fancy sounding word that means your brain changes. The more you think something, the more easy it is to think that the more you do something, the more easy it is to do it. Brains do change. You’re not like stuck. they just, does take practice. And one of the easiest ways to manage
Sara Whelan (33:18)
Mm-hmm.
Kristen Stuppy (33:26)
Thank
Mike Legett (33:31)
how you’re thinking there’s something is to do it out loud with somebody.
Kristen Stuppy (33:34)
Yeah.
Sara Whelan (33:35)
Hmm. So important. Yep. And I think adults need that. So yeah, need
Mike Legett (33:40)
We do, we do.
Sara Whelan (33:43)
it. And they need permission to be able to do it, to give themselves permission.
Mike Legett (33:48)
Mm-hmm.
Sara Whelan (33:49)
We’re going to be diving much deeper into this topic during our ADHD KC parent group event. It’s Tuesday, May 12 at 630 p.m.
What are you most excited to share with families during your presentation on May 12th?
Mike Legett (34:07)
Yeah. So I, you today I tried to go easy on the heavy science stuff because like, I feel like it makes sense to sort of scaffold things up. Um, but I do, I do really like doing that. And so I’m, I’m excited to hopefully see people go from like, I don’t know what that big scary word means to, oh yeah, that makes total sense. I get it. It’s just, and then some bizarro metaphor. Right? Like that’s.
Sara Whelan (34:34)
Thank
Mike Legett (34:35)
I
love to see that. So I really do look forward to diving into different parts of the brain and how brains work and things like that. And again, with the goal of bridging the gap so that people can look towards better, higher quality information sources and also building that compassion and that awareness.
Kristen Stuppy (34:56)
Yeah, if there was one thing that you want parents to walk away from, that main talk that you’re going to be giving, what would that one thing be?
Mike Legett (35:05)
Ooh, everything. That’s the point. I’m kidding. I think it would be like understanding that what’s hard is hard and it’s hard for a reason. And that like, if we go from there, that’s a way better starting place. You know, what’s hard is hard because brains.
Kristen Stuppy (35:10)
Thank you.
Sara Whelan (35:28)
Yeah. And who would you say this talk is especially helpful for?
Kristen Stuppy (35:28)
Just kidding.
Mike Legett (35:35)
people who have brains, people who love brains, people who live with brains. Yeah, I do think that particularly people who are scared of science or feel like they don’t have enough foundation to listen to sources that are going to be a little sciency, there’s such great information out there. But there is sometimes a gap in the learning. And it can feel like,
Sara Whelan (35:38)
Right?
Mike Legett (36:00)
Well, if I’m going to hear about all these things and I don’t know what a neurotransmitter is or what it does, or I don’t know like how, you know, I don’t know what the corpus callosum is. Like how would I even start? Right. You don’t have to go get a degree in neuroscience to like read about ADHD. You know, um, the idea is that like, this is a bunch of the stuff that would help you learn that thing so that you can jump right in.
Sara Whelan (36:29)
making it accessible, building curiosity, which makes it approachable. Yeah. ⁓ which is even better. Must be.
Mike Legett (36:31)
Yeah. Yeah. I’m silly. There will be silliness. No, I know, right? I’m very serious,
Kristen Stuppy (36:38)
Don’t say that at all from you.
Mike Legett (36:43)
calm, stoic, beige. I like lots of beige in my life.
Sara Whelan (36:47)
You
Kristen Stuppy (36:49)
So actually, before we wrap up, let’s do something fun to just kind of get listeners to get to know you a little bit better. So rapid fire, quick answers. Let’s see what you got. All right. Current nerdy interest.
Mike Legett (36:57)
See you around.
I’m remodeling my bathroom. That doesn’t sound nerdy, except that you should see my spreadsheet.
My spreadsheet is a thing of beauty for this project.
Kristen Stuppy (37:17)
Love it. Favorite way to recharge.
Mike Legett (37:21)
Ever heard the phrase, those who work with their minds relax with their hands? So I love that phrase first off. Second off, that bathroom remodel right now, my recharge is working with my hands by literally jackhammering the floor of that bathroom.
Kristen Stuppy (37:25)
I’ve not.
Sara Whelan (37:26)
No.
Kristen Stuppy (37:37)
More skills come out during this talk.
Sara Whelan (37:38)
Yes.
DIY, right?
Mike Legett (37:40)
Hahaha!
Kristen Stuppy (37:42)
⁓ a tool or
strategy you use personally.
Mike Legett (37:47)
Guys, I have stopped losing my phone. It’s just a simple, stupid little like plastic card thing and the little like tag piece comes out the bottom. My phone, I just put it on and now I can’t drop it. And if I don’t have pockets, it’s fine. And if my pockets are stupid and if phone falls out of my pockets, it just hangs. And if I set it down and put something on top of it, which used to be a common occurrence, it has a tail.
Kristen Stuppy (37:50)
Cool.
Mike Legett (38:16)
You know what? I haven’t lost my phone in months, you guys. Months. Life changing. That’s my tool.
Kristen Stuppy (38:21)
It’s
amazing how little things are so life changing. I love it.
Mike Legett (38:24)
Huge.
Yeah.
Sara Whelan (38:24)
mean,
the phone is a.
Kristen Stuppy (38:26)
⁓
Last question, something small that brings you joy during the day.
Mike Legett (38:31)
Honestly, my super colorful office. Look at that color. Look at it.
Kristen Stuppy (38:36)
I do love that.
Sara Whelan (38:37)
I love it.
Kristen Stuppy (38:40)
is amazing. Well, thank you so much, Mike, for joining us today and bringing clarity and compassion, Have fun. Yeah. ⁓
Mike Legett (38:48)
It has been an absolute delight. Thank you. Thank you so
Sara Whelan (38:51)
us.
Mike Legett (38:51)
much for having me. This has been really fun.
Kristen Stuppy (38:53)
Yeah, and I know our listeners are going to walk away with a whole new perspective on nerdy science after they listen to you talk for an hour. ⁓
Sara Whelan (38:54)
Yes.
Yes.
And we’ll want to hear more even after that. I do. I know. Yes, everyone will. And for everyone listening, if today’s conversation resonated with you, we would love for you to join us at the ADHD KC parent group online event on Tuesday, May 12th, 6 30 p.m. Central. Mike’s going to present to do or not to do decision neuroscience and ADHD.
Kristen Stuppy (39:29)
And you can find all the registration information, our show notes on our ADHDKC events page, whether your child has ADHD, you have ADHD or both. You can always walk away with practical insight and a lot more compassion for how our brains actually work.
Sara Whelan (39:45)
And if you enjoyed this episode, please share it with someone else who could use it. And don’t forget to follow ADHDKC conversations wherever you listen to podcasts or watch videos.
Kristen Stuppy (39:56)
for being part of our community. We’re so glad you’re here.
Sara Whelan (39:58)
We’ll see you nexttime
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